I assure you what you are trying to prove just could not have happened.
1) Your link on global flood just put me off, it was written by a molecular biologist(frowns face at total disrespect for geology) I repeat there is no evidence whatsoever of a global flood plus I asked you what you think the effect water higher that mount everest would be? Run through a lesson on pressure.
2) Your link on Ron Wyatt is equally "apphaulful" the guy was a scam artist, did you check his background before posting that link? I guess not so try this
Maybe this will jolt you to reality
And when you are done reading please humbly come back to this community and apologise for posting info that would have resulted in misleading them.
You are grasping at straws my friend.
It may interest you to know that the begining of this whole noah talk was me telling gamine that the bible is not plain and simple so its nice that you see this is not supposed to be interpreted plainly.
If what moses could see was seeing a vision of a certain region I don't think it would have stated the whole earth. But let me assume it was, to make things easier, it means that it was not the whole earth that was in sin but just that region say the middle east, but clearly God was not happy with ALL of creation not just the middle east, plus that would mean God created just the middle east and so on. That's why I said the implications of considering the know earth was enormous.
You can move over your replies to the noah thread.
OK, Moses wrote this, now lets go into the realm of conjecture a bit. Suppose he received this information via a divine vision, and from what he saw in the vision, everywhere he could SEE - i.e the limit of human vision, was covered by water, not necessarily the 'whole earth'. Now like I mentioned earlier, if he based his judgment of 'everything under the sky on his visual ability, then of course it cannot be that he saw the 'whole earth'. Or lets say, this was based on some recorded account of Noah, it would be based on his own visual observation.
Even in testing the ground to see what had dried, did the dove fly around the whole earth before landing? It must have flown around a reasonable radius around the ark, and not to say South Africa and back before not finding dry land. We cannot be certain what proportion of land was consumed by the flood, what we do know, is that as far as Noah was concerned, the 'whole earth' as he knew it, was covered.
All I am saying is that it will be a bit foolhardy to engage in an extremely 'literal' translation without taking into consideration the realities/state of knowledge at the time. The passage doesn't lend itself to the type of strict explanation you wish to subject it to.
To all the people looking for the ark, do you think centuries of people in a sparsely forested area would not have taken the ark apart and used it for their own purposes? So many things could have happened to the ark for no records of it to be found. The absence of this 'evidence' doesn't negate its existence in my view.
I don't want to start analysing what the implication of "known world" is but let me ask you this, it was moses who wrote Genesis right? So noah necessarily did not even know how big this earth is thats not even a problem so are we talking of the world known to moses as stated in creation ? Whats your point exactly?
Genesis 7:19 And the water prevailed more and more upon the land, so that all the "high hills everywhere under the sky" were covered.
7:20 The water prevailed fifteen cubits higher, and the hills were covered.
Looks to me like the whole world was covered.
Let’s begin by looking at this highly questionable account from a common sense point of view. Within the story, we have a god who has to modify virtually all of his creations for the solely expressed reason of the people having become wicked and evil (Genesis 6:5), yet wicked and evil people continue to exist throughout the Bible. Right off the bat, the foundation for the story fails to make sense. Why would an omniscient god have to destroy all of his work for a specific quality that he knew would continue to exist even unto this very day? The flood was for naught, yet God carried out his horrific genocide anyway. I find this to be the most disturbing and perhaps the most ridiculous premise ever conjured by the human mind.
The author clearly tells the story from the perspective that God had just recently realized the way the world had become. This, too, fails to make sense because biblical authors repeatedly claim that God is omniscient. By definition, his omniscience requires him to have known at the time of Adam and Eve that he would later desire to start from scratch at Noah. This unnecessary and foreseeable correction is hardly the logical course of action for an omnipotent god to take. If you let your inhibitions loose, however, it should be painfully obvious that the original authors of Genesis didn’t consider these salient points as they were writing. One might even ask if they bothered to proofread their work. Such casual observations work well against the hypothesis of an all-knowing god, a consideration we’ll revisit repeatedly. At this point in our study, one must already concede that God is not omniscient, God behaves in an acutely illogical manner, or the flood simply never took place for the reasons provided by the Bible.
Appallingly, God drowned unborn children in the flood. This indisputably necessary consequence of his actions should ironically put a huge kink in the pro-life arguments from the church. God aborts countless unborn children for the questionable sins of their parents, yet the church expects society not to do the same? Infants and young children who do not possess the intellectual capacity to tell right from wrong were also casualties of the flood! How could they be among the wicked and evil? These are hardly the actions of the loving God depicted in the New Testament. The innocent children didn’t deserve the fate God inexcusably dealt them, end of story. Helpless animals also suffered the horrible fate of the children. However, given the apparently twisted love that God has for smells from animal sacrifices (Genesis 8:20-21), that last point shouldn’t have been very surprising to someone familiar with the Bible.
No one has ever found the enormous ark even though we know its final resting place is among the mountains of Ararat located around present-day Turkey (Genesis 8:4). All evidence presented as proof of the ark’s discovery has been admitted to be a hoax, proven a hoax, or withheld from testing. Although one could reasonably anticipate that someone would have discovered a tangible piece of evidence from the craft if it hasn’t decomposed, multiple expeditions have turned up absolutely nothing. While many people claim they have evidence for the ark being conveniently underground, no one has ventured to exhume it from the earth.Genesis, the only known source of Noah’s story, has several hundred additional problems in need of answers before we can consider it a reliable historical source. No known individuals recorded this particular version of the global flood myth until nearly 2000 years after the floodwaters vanished. Since oral accounts of an event can obviously undergo drastic changes even over a few generations, there’s really no telling how much alteration the story incorporated before existing in its present form. In short, as we have seen and will continue to see, the book of Genesis is not a reliable source of historical information by any stretch of the imagination.
@mazaje thank you oh help me ask am.
I am quite new here but one thing I was quick to catch up on is that before you post please verify your facts.
There has never, I repeat never been any evidence of a global flood, neither has there been discovery of any piece of noah's ark.
The pyramid of giza is a different scenario entirely but I see the similarity you are trying to pull which is how people at that time were able to pull such a feat. I will indulge you
1) The pyramid is still standing or at least most of it and that alone speaks volumes, we know it existed, in contrast we have never seen even a piece of nail from noah's ark ( I wonder if Iron had already been smelted by then ). Well you can point out to me that wood would not last as long as stone and I will agree with you even though that would not excuse its not being found and that brings me to
2) nature of material used to make the ship, what kind of wood was used, I want you to sit and imagine the kind of rain that would raise waters 6 meters higher than the highest mountains, really pause and think. As an engineer when I am faced with a task of such enormity I think I would run for a material that has a very good "strength" as we call it, but lets assume noah miraculously found wood to carry out such a task, what tools were at his disposal to lumber them?( I will urge you to quickly read up the history of tools so you can get a good understanding and please also read up buoyancy and what role density plays), how long do you think it would have taken him to gather the materials to build the ark? That brings me to the next point which is
The pyramid of giza was built within a time frame of 20 years, thats a lot! How long did noah have? Is the picture becoming clearer, hopefully you have a list of the tasks he was supposed to accomplish. A cemetery was discovered where the workers of the pyramid of giza stayed the cemetery held close to 100000 people, noah had about 8 people to help him and unless they all had super powers how is that possible.
I really do not want to go on as there is no point trying prove this all to you engineering wise, word of advise when it comes to a field you are not familiar with just try and understand it then you can ask better questions and then we can sit down examine the laws and see what's possible.
Furthermore please understand that it is not that engineers cannot replicate but trying to understand which methods were used, today is September 10th 2008 and the big bang experiment has been successfully launched in switzerland, this experiment will reproduce the conditions under a billionth of a second after the big bang and you say they cannot replicate the pyramid of giza.
In summary get facts straight.@mesmya
I am really sorry looks like I am changing this thread to noah's ark, its was just to show gamine that the bible is not plain and simple. Again apologies.
I read all your theories about the ark and you seem to have a point, i would accept your theory when you tell me exaclty how the great pyramid of Giza was built by the ancient egytians. let me give you a little background on it. The great pyramid of Giza is the oldest and biggest pyramid in Egypt and the design and structure is far more complex and advanced than the pyramids built thousands of years after it. Over two million stones weighing an average of 3 tonnes were used in it's construction and it is thirty times the size of empir state building. Engineers have been unsable to understand or replicate how this structure was constructed ( even in this mordern times) I am sure if the pyramid was not still standing and you read about such a magnificent structure only in history books you would have written it off as a myth. My point being, the fat that you cannot understand something doesn't make it a myth. That aside scientist have discovered evidence of a global flood around the time of Noah. That is apart from the fact that the ark as been found somewhere in mordern day turkey which was the area the ark berthed in after the flood.
You havent said anything.
The Bible Says Noah built an ark and Animals went into it.
Whether the animals were Adults, Children or Eggs isnt the deal.
The deal is that a representation of the specie was there.
I cannot see how that is hard to understand.
Even as a Child in sunday school singing this song
"The Lord told Noah to build him an Arky arky (2x)
Build it out of Gopher Barky Barky. . . . ."
it was pretty clear to me.
@Gamine Surley you did not really think hard before you said that just now, I will assume you are serious. Let me even let you in more into the absurdity of your story, let me start with the dimensions of such a vessel, from the bible the length of the ark is about 137m or 450 feet about 32m longer than the schooner wyoming which is the largest timber hulled vessel built in modern times. Now for a little lesson in Engineering, you see my dear ships like the wyoming suffered hull seperation, hogging, sagging serious leaking and a host of other problems despite the Iron reinforcement. Oh I forgot to remind you to put a stop watch on because he was supposed to have pulled this is off in seven days ok. Good now that you have done that lets go to lesson 2 in engineering today, if the ark was miraculously made in that time frame by some eistenlike thinking how could it have supported its own weight? Answer that ( scientifically) and then we move to lesson 3, lets talk volume, from the dimensions the ark would been about 40,000 cubic meters in volume, a displacement of about 22,000 tons and a total floor space of 100,000 square feet, this brings me to your earlier assertion which said how did the T.rex manage to squeeze in male and female with two of the other species of every other animal in the world, don't forget now that the bible is plain and simple and did not state in anyway that noah failed to achieve this feat, and surley 7 days would be too small for noah to build this piece of extreme engineering even by today's standards and manage to get all the animals in at the same time. Ok again lets make yet another assumption that he somehow managed this feat how did just 8 people take care of all these animals and feed them, oh food! Thats right where did all the food they ate while in the ark come from? And how where they stored the animals would have consumed food that would weigh more than them in that time , oh my is the ark beginning to sink? Are we forgetting something important we know when we eat our bodies have to remove waste products, how did noah deal with that of animals.
There is a lot more to ask but I think the intelligent mind should catch the gist.
@kunle is the idea still so brilliant?
I dont know how True the claims of these people who find Bones and things are.
What i do Know, is GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH, EVERYTHING.
Whether they are Billions of years old, God Created them!
As For Noah and The T-Rex, Thanks for giving me inspiration for a book
What makes you think it entered the boat sef? IT could have perished in the flood.
@Gamine ok maybe you did not understand me, a 5.8 million year old human fossil was found in ethiopia how does that fit into the creation story in the bible? Or that science has put the earth at around 4.5 billion years old? You care to answer those now they are more explicit?
Oh and the noah dinosaur drift I was talking about, sorry to burst the bubble but there is no way man would have lived side by side a T.rex let alone forget to record it.
Factor these in and you will see that is the reason why there is so much confusion in christianity because it was man made.
@post Sorry dude but if you check jewish history you might find the roots of the rules of marriage similar if not one hundred percent the same to the bible, in essence you are just asking if Men of God should get married according to the adulterate version of Judaism.
@poster dude open your eyes the bible used to be cleverness of a few and the fear of many, do you really believe in that old testament God.
I will address your post, this is not the first time man and woman begin cause problem in fact it was the biggest issue during the anglican break out from the catholic church. In all the only answers you would find are those that are personal interpretations from the holy book of confusion.