A question was asked by Shahan on the thread 'Is Jesus God?'. the question is ' before Jesus became a man, WHO WAS HE (IN HEAVEN)? I like to know everyones thought on this.
A question was asked by Shahan on the thread 'Is Jesus God?'. the question is ' before Jesus became a man, WHO WAS HE (IN HEAVEN)? I like to know everyones thought on this.
All this came about because the gospel was later on, as the New Jerusalem Bible says, "amplified and developed in several stages during the second half of the first century.
"It would seem that we have only the end-stage of a slow process that has brought together not only component parts of different ages, but also corrections, additions and sometimes even more than one revision of the same discourse." (The New Jerusalem Bible, p. 1739)
The New American Bible says that most scholars "have come to the conclusion that the inconsistencies were probably produced by subsequent editing in which homogeneous materials were added to a shorter original." (The New American Bible, Revised New Testament, p. 143)
Only the ungodly are tempted with evil:
"But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own last, and enticed." (James 1:14)
The Racial "God"
"God" was a tribal Jew: "The Lion of the tribe of Juda." (Revelation 5:5)
"God" came for the Jews only:
"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew 15:24)
Racial discrimination of "God":
"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew 10:5-6)
The kingdom of "God":
"And he (Jesus) shall reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." (Luke 1:33)
The titles of "God":
"The King of the Jews". (Matthew 2:2); "The King of Israel". (John 1:49; 12:13)
A "God" Unlike the GodA hungry "God":
"Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered." (Matthew 21:18). "And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry." (Mark 11:12)
A thirsty "God":
"(He) saith, I thirst." (John 19:28)
A sleepy "God":
"He was asleep." (Matthew 8:24). "He fell asleep." (Luke 8:23). "And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow." (Mark 4:38)
A weary "God":
"Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well." (John 4:6)
A groaning "God":
" He groaned in the spirit, and was troubled." (John 11:33). "Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave." (John 11:38)
A weeping "God":
"Jesus wept." (John 11:35)
A sorrowing "God":
"And (he) began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death." (Matthew 26:37-38)
A hysterical "God":
"And (he) began to be sore amazed and to be very heavy." (Mark 14:33)
A weak "God":
"And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him." (Luke 22:43)
The "God" of war:
Jesus said: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)
A "God" cursing a tree:
"And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward forever. And presently the fig tree withered away." (Matthew 21:19)
A "God" who did not want to be called "good":
"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." (Matthew 10:18)
A "God" who was servant of God:
"Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles." (Matthew 12:18)
A "God" who was prophet of God:
"And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:" (Luke 24:19)
The "God" On the Run
"God" was panic-stricken: "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him." (John 7:1)
"God" walked in fear of the Jews:
"Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death. Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews." (John 11:53-54)
"God" has shown a clean pair of heels:
"Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand." (John 10:39)
"God" fled in disguise:
"At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds." (John 8:59)
The Capture of "God"
A friend betrayed the hiding place of "God": "And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus oft-times resorted thither with his disciples. Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons." (John 18:2-3)
"God" was arrested, bound and led away:
"Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound him, and led him away." (John 18:12-13)
"God" was humiliated:
"And the men that hold Jesus mocked him, and smote him. And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face." (Luke 22:63:64). "Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands." (Matthew 26:67)
"God" was defenseless:
"One of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand", he said, "Why smitest thou me?" (John 18:22-23)
"God" was condemned to death:
"And they all condemned him to be guilty of death." (Mark 14:64). "They answered and said, He is guilty of death" (Matthew 26:66).
The dumb and docile "God":
"He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth" (Acts 8:32).
The cursed "God" by God:
"Christ had redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hanged on a tree" (Galatians 3:13).
The End of "God"
The dying "God": "And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost" (Mark 15:37).
The dead "God" :
"Christ died" (Romans 5:6). "He was dead" (John 19:33).
The corpse of "God":
"He (Joseph) went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered." (Matthew 27:58)
The shroud of "God":
"And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth." (Matthew 27:59)
Now we can analyst the status of Jesus as we replace the word “God” all the verses we have been quoted from the New Testament without any doubt that Jesus(as) was a HUMAN BEING LIKE US.!
He does not shared/joint the nature of God nor was he in every way like God. But he was selected by Almighty God as a messenger o confirm the message of previous messengers to WORSHIP GOD ALONE.
The country of "God":
Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king." (Matthew 2:1)
The occupation of "God":
"Jesus was a carpenter by trade (Mark 6:3), and the son of a carpenter." (Matthew 13:55)
The transport of "God":
"Behold, the King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an Bottom." (Matthew 21:5). "And Jesus, when he had found a young Bottom, sat thereon." (John 12:14)
The wining and dining "God":
" The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners." (Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:34)
The poverty of "God":
"And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." (Matthew 8:20).
"God" was a devout Jew:
"And in the morning, rising up a great while before day, he went out, and departed into a solitary place, and there prayed." (Mark 1:35)
The Family of "God"
"God" was the son of Joseph: ", Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph." (John 1:45)
Brother of "God":
"But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother." (Galatians 1:19 and Matthew 13:54-56)
Mother of "God":
"Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, , " (John 19:25)
The Development of "God"
Spiritual development of "God": "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom." (Luke 2:40)
Let us see what you call Jesus(as) 100% god Nature this is just an example people.
This Pauline fabrication is so well embedded in today's teachings of Christianity, "Jesus is God", or "Jesus is Lord" is the number one motto. It is claimed that "Jesus shares the nature of God, and he is in every way like God. "
We will replace the word "Jesus" with "God".
Our intention is not to insult anyone; but rather to highlighting those Christian who are not familiar with the bibles.
(Matthew 7:23). As you see, the doctrine of Trinity, which was fabricated by Paul, and influenced the authors of the Gospels is an insult to God Almighty and to the intelligence of men.
The Birth of "God"
"God" was created from the seed of David: "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh." (Romans 1:3)
The ancestors of "God":
"The generations of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham." (Matthew 1:1)
The sex of "God": "And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus." (Luke 2:21)
How Mary conceived and delivered "God":
"The days were accomplished that she should be delivered," (Luke 2:6). "And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered." (Revelation 12:2)
"God" sucked the paps of a woman:
"And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked." (Luke 11:27)
Woops, sorry fellows, i meant to say that my prayer is that many may see the light of God, even muslims. Because The bible says that let God be true and every man be a liar. (Romans 3:4). Mahommed was a man just like you, because the word of God says that in Adam, all die that through Jesus all may live. (Romans 4: 19- 21). 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
20The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The discussion here is, who was Jesus before he became a man, and i believe i have answered it above this post.
God loves you,
If you just base those wikipedia ideas mostly of the comment came from Christian author’s criticizing Islamic belief. And the footnote mostly are recently circulating in this twenty century with is hypocritical among themselves. We are used to it of the negative comment from the Christian author because of their biased story.
I just saw this ==> "Next to Moh@mmed's tomb, there is another empty tomb that M-uslims believe awaits Jesus. "
Taken from here ==> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet_Mohammed#Death
Your people in Medina are also waiting for Jesus' return from Heaven. Perhaps you can ask them how they know.
I react to those posted thread when people comment that Jesus(as) in the right hand of God. without any probe?
If somebody comment you should be specify of what have you been says
Because it reflects to you, again such erroneous beliefs. If anybody say’s that Jesus is in the right hand of God ? how come he know that he is in the right hand such a normal person whatever Religion he belong he will ask this simple question? Did you see/ or anybody see Jesus in the heaven as a living person here in Earth? Of course not even one of you can not probe it where in the heaven he stay with the almighty God.
Not even the founder of the Christianity John or Paul have the answer of that? If so how? Did you visit the heaven?
@all 2 d POSTER that wants to know who was JESUS before he became a man should check out:-
New International Version (NIV)
Passage Philippians 2:5-11:
5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
or better still check out
The Message (MSG) translation version of the bible
Passage Philippians 2:5-11:
5 -8Think of yourselves the way Christ Jesus thought of himself. He had equal status with God but didn't think so much of himself that he had to cling to the advantages of that status no matter what. Not at all. When the time came, he set aside the privileges of deity and took on the status of a slave, became human! Having become human, he stayed human. It was an incredibly humbling process. He didn't claim special privileges. Instead, he lived a selfless, obedient life and then died a selfless, obedient death—and the worst kind of death at that—a crucifixion.
9 -11Because of that obedience, God lifted him high and honored him far beyond anyone or anything, ever, so that all created beings in heaven and on earth—even those long ago dead and buried—will bow in worship before this Jesus Christ, and call out in praise that he is the Master of all, to the glorious honor of God the Father.
Hope all worries should be resolved by now.
Another proof of the Trinity.
Exodus 23:20-22 (English Standard Version)
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Holy Bible, English Standard Version Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a division of Good News Publishers.
Conquest of Canaan Promised
20(A) "Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 21Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice;(B) do not rebel against him,(C) for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.
22"But if you carefully obey his voice and do all that I say, then(D) I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.
Mostly of the christians are fantasizing to the ICONIZE of JESUS.
the ebonite who became the first christianity they do not even have an Icon of Jesus
but to this present generation the ICON OF JESUS are alll over in the Church and in the market and in the house
they even invented and accept Mary as god mother
and all the Saint.
Except Adam was before everybody else. You name it, Adam was before her (Eve) and him/her (any later person onward). Afterall, he, Adam was the first created by God. All souls of his progenies was brought about through him; the souls were removed from his back!
Now I will not respond to you. This will be my last. Its final. Hopefully this statement about Adam and souls and the existence of his children, regardless who that child is will affect somebody here. The effect will be intense enough that it will wake up the dormant goodness in the person to seek the proper way to worship the Creator, Who is the Cherisher of all things; God Almighty who is One without ascendancy or desendancy. There is no God save He.
But there was a time that Muha/mmad hid himself from the Makkans in Makka. When they were after him, Al/lah revealed Verse 9 of Surah Yasiin. He walked between them and they were unable to see him. When he was on the way in Hijra to Madina, he and Abu Bakr (ra), were shielded in a cave by God from enemies eager to overtake them. So the nemies were confounded.
And Surakat, who was the lead spy against him from the Makkans so that he could give them his movement rode an animal that was uncooperative. His horse was sinking in the sand, and by this he became a muslim before he died.
A Yahweh that would not truly be a Yahweh, is the Yahweh that is mouthy but has nothing behind it so hiding is a good tactics for saving face. Avoiding been skinned alive! So the "I am Yahweh" was said in vain, just like Pharaoh boasted about his being god of Egypt and the nile flowed by his power! I wonder why the people say Aleiluyah, instead Yahwehyah or yahyahweh? That shows that yahweh could not truly be the proper name of the Creator! Afterall Eloi is what is written. And it is synonemous to All/ah and has no connection, whatsoever with yahweh, etc!
@Imhotep: You did not see my entry about my existence before Abraham and Jesus, right?
But it is interesting to know that Jesus never said that before Adam he was! The reason was that as a prophet and messengr of his Lord, Jesus knew that he was a product from Adam. And a word to indicate that he existed before Adam would have been incorrect. Chew on that now.
@All Christians: Before Abraham on earth, I Olabowale and all sons and daughters of Adam were, in our spiritual form. Our souls were taking at the same time from the back of Adam. This means all the souls of all who came from Adam, in body and soul. This included Jesus, the one who you guys are so naive about his saying. And unfortunately, you are giving it your own spin, so that you can further a fakery of the legend.
In that statement, so that you hear me well, before Jesus on earth, i olabowale was in heavy! Now chew on that. There is no God save All/ah! And Jesus is not it. The holy spirit is not it. God Almighty stands alone, in His Majesty, Awesomeness. Jesus was a mere Creation. So is the holy spirit.
My LORD JESUS once said A doctor do come for the healthy rather for those who are sick. I don't judge you with those comment you just make. No matter what you did or said I know the JESUS STILL LOVES YOU bro'!
Rev. 3 :30
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.
You sound like smart individual to me. You may want to think about the above verse, better yet , pick a Bible.
According to my understanding I believe that Jesus Christ, had existed as the word of God, before he took the human form. The gospel according to John makes it clear, John the author was among the closest disciples to Jesus Christ, so he's declaration of Jesus as the word of God should be highly considered. The Word of God is an active force of God's very action, It is the only way that can prove Jesus Christ and God inseparable, I dent want to believe that Jesus was just another guy in heaven, He's the word, made flesh, and died for we sinners that we might be saved, resurrected and ascended to the father to sit on the right hand of God's throne, Thats how I see it.
May you continue to grow in the Grace and Knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, to him be the Glory for now and eternity. Amen.(2Peter 3:18)
@ Fellow brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus,
sister shahan has said it all, the only thing I could add is Php.2 : 5 - 6(a) Your attitude should be the same of that of Christ Jesus: (6) [/b][/color]Who, being in every nature, GOD.
[color=#006600]Lord Jesus is not 50% God, 50% man but fully 100% GOD(in nature) and 100% man(in flesh). Remember he did every things we human do including wept for Lazarus(John 11:35) death. Not that he didn't knows that he(Jesus, 100% God in nature) will rise him from the dead, but to show his 100% in flesh as a man. Again, before he was crucified Jesus 100%man asked if it is possible for the father to take the cup away(just like any man will ask of his father), but Jesus 100% God know thy will of the father will be accomplished.
This is not to confuse anyone, The Lord is not double personality but to illustrate what [b][color=#006600]John 1:1 said.
Jesus Christ was GOD (not the Father but the son in his full father Glory) not a man nor angels.
peace be unto you !
Our Lord Jesus Christ was and is God the Son who had to become the Son of Man so as to make man become the sons of God.
See the link below for detailed information that will help us to understand better and compliment what shahan et al has been saying.
It is one thing to argue, exchange ideas and have fun, and it is another thing altogether to go out of your way to be nasty. It is an onerous responsibilty to represent God, and we must not misrepresent him. There must be a clear distinction between when we do our "human" things like being foul-mouthed and abusive, etc, and when we purport to represent God to others.
God does not take kindly to his character being misrepresented by his anointed representatives. Ask Moses.
Whilst exchanging your views, it may interest you to know that you are ministering to some of us. So a little christ-like or mohammed-like character would help your cause.
Shahan, personally, I am quite impressed by your understanding of the word. But it seems beclouded by a certain anger towards your moslem brothers and their beliefs.
Afterall, did Jesus not say; love those that despise you?
Jesus was God before he came as flesh.
Gen 1: 1 Let US make man in our image. US; This is God the father speaking with God the son and God the Holy Spirit.
Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand This is the Father speaking to the Son.
John 8:58 Before Abraham was I AM This is Jesus confirming that He had always been from everlasting
Are you then the Son of God?" He (Jesus) replied, "You are right in saying I am." (Luke 22:70).
Hence the correct answer is that Jesus was the second person in the godhead, the Son of God, functioning as the word of God, before he came as a man to save the world.
is a son made or born?
when tupac said he is a made nigga, people raised eyebrows, buthe was a rapper so it was understandable.but we r now talkin on what the salvation of about 2billion people in the world and the hereafter depend, so we shouldnt take chances. i think u have to really think about it. falsehood has no two names, it is always falsehood.
plus u need to go down some history lane to really understand what the divinity of jesus means.it wasnt something that came when he was alive or some few yrs after him,but many years after. we know how many meetings were held, how many protests wee held, how many people were burnt just to establsih the deity of a noble and pious man.
so let me leave it like this, i hope shahan learns somethings about herfaith here. wowwwww.
Thank you for commending me,cos religion is all about containing and tolerating other peoples religion.
But let me ask u?
Jesus christ was never the son of God during the creation, but he was made the son when He God incarnated in form of God to save mankind.
so to tell me that jesus was formerly a son who only come from the father is a mere falacy.
read the bible and understand me.
sorry if i may sound rude.
You really have your eyes turned in your sockets if you think I've been running. . . lol. There's really no need for you to foam in the mouth if you can't keep up. Tip: you can enlarge the fonts to point 24 and embolden them to shout all you want; it won't change the truth of the Bible even if Muhammad denied them to his doom. Just dress warm and keep reading - you will learn a thing or two that will help your reverse-IQ.
SOMEONE HAS A DAD. DOESNT IT BEHOVE THE INTELLECT THAT THERE IS A TIME THAT THE SON WOULD NOT EXIST?
REASON WITH ME!SEEMS U R SOME HOW COOL UNLIKE THE OTHER FANATICS IN HERE.PLS THINK ABOUT THAT. THE FATHERT PRECEDES THE SON, OBVIOUSLY. SO IT SHOWS HE HAS A BEGINNING THAT IS DETERMINED BY WHEN HE WAS CONCEIVED.
U DONT HAVE TO RUN AWAY. ANSWER HERE. ANYWAY I VE SEEN UR ANSWERS BUT THEY R NOT PLAUSIBLE.I VE REPLIED TO THE BABBLES ANY WAY.SO U CAN ALWAYS REPLY AGAIN OR ESCAPE.
DOES REVELATIUON HAVE TO TELL U THAT BEFORE U KNOW?(THAT HE HAS A BEGINNING) AND FORUR INFO IN MANY PLACES IN THE QURAN, THERE IS PROOF THAT HE HAS A BEGINNING.
SEE THE STORY OF HIS CREATION.
I WONT TALK ABOUT THE BIBLE, A BOOK THATS AS CORRUPT AS KURRUPT. OOUCH
shahhan or whateva,
u the dumbest clown i ever seen, how would the son of god create man, where was God?
was He on vac?
face facts , thats a reasonable question for u again, stop running away. answer how will he be God when he has a dad, tha preceded him, and how will he be eterenal when there was a time that he was not alive?
he has a beginnign so definitely he will have an end, so how would that be God?
stop running answer, call the pope, text ur bishop, i need answers pls. stop insulting , no side talking, straight forward answers pls.
Jesus Christ is not like Muhammad. The Son of God created Muhammad a man; but the sinful Quraish prophet didn't like to hear that - for the simple reason that if he acknowledged that, then he would have to forsake his sins.
Muhammad loved sin - the Qur'an and Hadiths prove that to the letter. After his career, the sinner cried that he did not know what his *Allah would do to him. We can guarantee you that he will stand before the very same One he denied, and will be severely punished for his atrocities.
Keep calm and keep reading - you might learn a thing or two that will help you embrace the Saviour before it is too late, and escape the same fate as Muhammad charted for himself.
if he was a boy before he was man, or was a word before he was man,all the same it means there was a time he didnt exist, so how the hell is he gon be God?
if indeed he is a son of God, there should have been a time that he was not alive, cos the dad precedes the son, showing that he is not eternal, so how the hell is he gon be God?
THINK, REFLECT O CHRISTIANS.