Somebody should please tell me why God planted that tree at the middle of the garden.
Because I really want to know may be God did it purposefully or not.
Somebody should please tell me why God planted that tree at the middle of the garden.
Because I really want to know may be God did it purposefully or not.
First, you contradicted that impression by the various admissions and inaccuracies in your other posts. That shows that you are still being dishonest.
Um, you do know that humans are animals; and that plants, including the venus fly trap, aren't capable of reasoning, right?
Gosh, as if this wasn't silly enough already. One can only hope that other Muslims aren't as silly as you. Then again, I suppose that would explain why many have to resort to violence to coerce people into the religion.
Uh, what? Did you read my previous posts?
That's not quite accurate. I do think that there is a possibilty that gods exist; I just believe it's highly improbable that they do exist. Tangible, testable and potentially falsifiable evidence will sway me. However, none has been presented so far.
Also, no, I haven't referred to "God" in another form: I have referred to material possibilities that operate in the universe. They are neither cognizant nor living, so if you want to think that's what is meant by god, then that's your prerogative.
At least we can all take some solace in the fact that if nothing else, you've at least learnt one thing: that machines can't be 100% efficient. I say that because in my previous post, I told you that I have no problem acknowledging that my knowledge is limited. What's more, I have never asserted that "whatever is beyond [my] scope does not exist." I have simply asserted or implied that the gods are improbable and unnecessary in the explanations of all things, and that since evidence for them is seriously lacking despite many people attesting to their "supernatural" existence, it makes sense for me to disregard them as things in existence.
See I gave you at least a one in four chances that you could be a live human, with pulse. Thats the quality of a human, on my part. Your one track mind is that you fail to even give a possibility that God exists, yet you have mentioned Him, in other other form, eg "MOVER,' but yet your linear ability and limited knowledge will not let you admit, any possibility.
Yet if you are human, you will one day die and if you are machine, you will one day be discarded. In either case, it shows that you have a limited knowledge, and whatever is beyond your scope does not exist. That is the deficiency on your ability to reason, if you are a human and the inferiority of your efficiency (less than 100%), if you are a machine.
as the adage goes. My debate with you is about your baseless denial of your Creator, God! I am using my denial of you as a living thing, if you are and you are not a machine (see I have doubt about your being a human being), to express your exact position about God!
Then you're doing a piss porr job, because you already all but admitted that you know I'm human and that my refutation of your supposed denial holds.
You're being incredibly duplicitous. You ignored the bulk of my post not because they were irrelevant, but because you couldn't rebutt them. That they contained the very thing you asked for, gives credence to that.
Then you're doing a piss porr job, because you already all but admitted that you know I'm human and that my refutation of your supposed denial holds.
Actually, they aren't quite the same. For one thing, you paradoxically denied my existence while chtting to me and asking me - the supposed non-existent - to provide evidence for my existence. For another, I was able to provide independent, empirically based, and potentially falsifiable lines of enquiry and evidence for my existence; the same can't be said of any deity.
Your question isn't very clear, so I'll do my best to answer what it is I think you're asking. Yes, I didn't exist until my parents gave me life, so I guess that settles that aspect. If you go back far enough, there's a possibility that Space and Time came from a singularity. Since the singularity - and indeed Space - was in existence before Time, it makes little sense to ask how it started. In any case, since energy can possibly emerge from quantum instabilities, that puts paid to the idea that something can't come from nothing
It apparently wasn't easy for you to deny my existence, because your posts are littered with implications and assertions that belie your supposed denial. Of course it was easier to deny the existence of gods: they don't exist. The evidence for theiur existence is seriously lacking, and when one is presented it's usually devoid of logic and impossible to verify empirically.
No, that is wrong. I don't want or need to test all conditions by sense of sight at all (sight in a machine, signore doofus?)
No, I don't. That is, unless by "heaven" you mean the universe.
Yeah, that's nonsense. We know what causes thunder and lightening and believe me they have nothing to do with either your god or Zeus. They are both caused by material forces.
I know I have a limited knowledge about myself; I also know that is an unnecessary admission in the matter of the existence or non-existence of a deity.
The gods aren't needed to explain any of those things. In fact, by Ockham's razor, they can be eliminated all together.
The Earth isn't floating, it's being acted upon by other bodies in space through gravity. I have no idea what gravity is as an ontological property - it's possible no one does; however, that the gods can only hide in the cracks between knowledge, is telling.
According to a Good source i read, which is meant to be the truth. When God asked Adam and eve not to eat from a particular leave/vegetable. So serpent forced Eve to eat it. after she ate the leave, which is today's weed or mariguana. She was high and could see things she couldnt see before. So she gave some drugs to adam and they both became forever high. THEIR EYES WERE OPEN,
After that event, God knew they will still be hungry for the precious leave, so he reduced the highness in weed, thats why today when we smoke up, the highness only lasts for few hours
LETS SMOKE THINGS, LETS HIGH UP
@KAG; What I have just done, if you are a human is to deny your existence, the same way that you denied the existence of your Creator, God! Afterall, you were once a none existing thing (before your parents got together in a conjugal way). Infact, all of us were not in existence at sometimes in the past. There was something that brought us to existence, at least crank up, into motion the stationary (Potential energy loaded thing, (the thing you atheists hypothesised to be the giver of life), and long time before the thing came into existence?) matter/particle, into a kinetic energy loaded thing, which in your mind brought you and all things to existence. This initial matter/particle, was it a Biological materials or what was it actually, if you know, which in time metamorphosised to life giver (the Bilogical part of of existing thing is what am referring to, you machine!)?
If it was easy for me to deny your human existence (I still believe that you are a machine because you are to mechanical in your responses, which is devoid of any human emotions), by just saying that you do not exist, since I have never seen you, yet we are both of the same species (If you are human, since i have limited knowledge and also zero knowledge of what the future hold, since we are not in the future yet. But at least I am human enough to admit it, while you are mechanical enough to deny all that you are not fed information on), in the creation, you can imagine how easier it is for you to deny the existence of God, though it is false denial, without any possible rational support of your position. Afterall, God is a being which does not look like you and you tend to be a visual person, and you have never laid eyes on Him, wanting to test all conditions by sense of sight, if possible. The same God is far away from you, having an elevated status, and exists in a place at minimum, heaven, a distance to earth, which is not known. Yet you believe that the 'heaven,' exist, even though you have never seen it. Further you have not heard the voice of this God, but yet you hear the rumblings of the Thunder, and you have seen the lighting flashes. But none of these things; thunder and lightening and heavens and the earth, do we have absolute knowledge about, and can claim that there will not be any new discovery on them, in the future!
You will have to accept that your knowledge is very limited about yourself, afterall yor can never see your own eyes, neck, nostrils, back, without using a mirror! Then you have never seen your own inside and the workings of the organs, except you have MRI or other image providing devices in medicine. Since you have not seen God, then look around you at His creations, on this earth. Start from yourself, then your family, how much you resemble some and yet not so with others, even though you come from the same source. Reflect and ponder about the animals and how the trees look aa dead and forgotten in the winter and yet in Spring, the come alive! How has the earth been able to float all these while since it came to existence, without going off course. I know its the magnetic forces and other forces, but how did they come into being? These are your problems: you and me have limited knowledge, but you fail to admit it, but try hard to expalin away the unexplainable.
Actually, it doesn't.
Not quite. While you may have meant 33 1/3%, that wasn't what you wrote. Don't blame your typos on me.
Lol. You really are bad at debating or discussing ideas, aren't you? You do know that if I had a one track machine mind, I wouldn't have been able to easily spot the contradictions, right? That's because your arguments and, in turn, your several contradictions aren't based on any mathematical properties but on poor philosopical logic, inability to conceive of and understand complete thoughts, and linguistics.
For the lurkers: you'll notice that he's completely ignored the bulk of my post, and avoided the positive evidence and individual lines of enquiry I've provided to satisfy his foolishness. You'd also notice that he hasn't bothered to provide any such thng about the subject of the initial debate.
I've responded to this in the post above.
Wit isn't one of your strongest suits (which is saying a lot); I'd leave it out if I were you.
@KAG: That figures. They did not program you to have human feelings and be able to identify that 33 1/3 % is what I meant, since I was discussing 100/3. I should have known that when I am addressing a Machine, all he reads is th punch cards (Binary informations on thems).
KAG, I do believe there is a thing I dentified as KAG; possibility is that it is a Machine being fed information, so that the lazy Mr Hyde, can continue his experiment of "Human like responses from a Machine, code KAG" The edification is for you Mr. handler (Dr Jerkell) of Machine code name KAG! Mr. Handler, you need to refine the programming, because I can see your machine is about to break down!
If the rudimented technology at that time of Charlies Angel TV show, could fool a host of American and indeed the world, then Imagine what the technology of today can do! Today, computer had advanced to the level that a man-like machine is being tested and being further refined! Afterall, computer gave Andre Gasperov, the chess world champion a run for his money in a chess match!
If you think I will fall for your gimmick, giving a false, rather weak argument about your existence, just because you identify 'yourself,' by 'I' and a pseudoname, 'KAG,' you have assumed that you are talking to a dummy! I could be everything, but a dummy! Finally, you have assumed that you are communicating with me, in English language. But this language is a very young language, which has her root from germanic root, and other languages of europe. Now that English is refined, I bet some people with some form of delution or out right denial will claim that English language is a language that has nothing to do with her father(s)/mother(s), indeed the european language! Yet some old languages of the world are already dead (Old Egyptian language long time prior to Moses, and others Babylonian, Byzentin and other) and forgotten and yet some are in some degrees of death! I state this idea for your edification, in the sense that you are using a young knowledge (in this case English Language) to identify and justify your existence, whereas, the languages which English originated from are even denied by some, assumed dead by others, and to some, yet relegated to insignificant, compared to English. But those who have knowledge, will always acknowledge this collective languages as identifiable and at least an oral means of passing informations, within the community of people, in Europe before the now dorminiaring English language.
Yet the English language of England, is almost distinctively different from the Ameicans. Some words are different and even none existing, yet some common words are written differently. Since knowledge is continuous, we have not gotten to the end of discoveries! So, there will be some new things to learn, always. Hence, KAG, if you are a human being, (50% chance that you are), your knowledge is very limited, even about the time that you live in, presently. You do not know everything. You and no technology had penetrated so far to the end of space/galxies, milky ways, etc, to get to a possibility to discover the heavens, or disprove their existence. However, if you are not a human being, say you are a machine generated voice, (50% chance that you are), your ability of today, however lifelike you are in structures and performance, especially your claimed ability to respond to others and me, in answers to questions, as you stated above, even in your best effort to immitate human beings, will be primitive to what the future machines can do!
In whatever way you exist, presently, as a human being lacking a good knowledge of your enviroment, except that you read from those who have greater knowledge than you, hence using other people's knowledge and opinions to come to your own, or as the best designed machine, of all times, to date, giving an out put of 100% efficiency, in total, your limited knowledge has not proven your own human existence, hence in the same knowledge you can not prove that God (The Great Mover) does not exist! Just the same way I do not see you, and you are not a tangible/physical essence to me, and your handiwork is known to a small group of people, you could not disprove the existence of God Whose handwork is known by several Billions of people, presently around the world. Even the Hindus believe that there is a MIGHTY GOD, and He is different from their many gods in their temples and their homes!
As I think about you, I tend to believe that you are a machine, whose programmer is more like Mr. Jerkell!
But my engaging the entity known as "KAG," will not preclude me from reminding you that you are in the grouping of Hindus, who know that their is a MIGHTY GOD, but yet have gods in their temples and homes. The christians do have crosses, crucibles in Churches and homes and around their neck, along with many saints, Mary, Fatima, etc.
I thought I did - well, kind of. I hinted at the farcity of what you did, though. That is, rather than provide positive evidence, you asked that I prove a negative. I also gave an initial argument which was: "There's no tangible evidence to suggest that any being construed to introduce Space and Time."
That is a reasonable explanation for Sceptism at the very least.
I didn't evade.
Wow! I guess you couldn't make it up - or maybe you could, but we'd be inclined to suspect idiocy even if you did make it up.
In any case, there are several lines of enquiry that can be used to show that I do in fact exist. Where "I" is at the very least a persona represented by the username "KAG".
Well, I'm communicating with you and other internet characters in a way that is empirically testable. That is, not only am I responding to your - and others - questions and posts in constructive sentences that indicate human intelligence, that fact can be verified by anyone who wishes to test it.
Following from that, it soon becomes apparent that even if we decide to try imagining alternatives which are unlikely to be testable, that my existence will still the most parsimonious of the lot.
I'm sure there are other propositions that can be raised, but that's it from me for now.
Hubris stinketh, and it doth cometh before a fall.
What activities? And why should I know?
@KAG: You have not reasonable explanation for anything, it shows! You truly have no answer, by your evasiveness! I want to use you as evidence of God, therefore I want you to negate your own existence? I Propose that KAG, does not Exist! Provide prove(s) for or against my hypothesis; Proposal!
Don't just sit there, act on it! You have just met your MATCH, InshaAllah, Mr. Disbeliever in EXISTENCE of any force that acted on that matter/particle at the very initial time, before everything else began to happen and continues, till this day! When will the activities going to stop; sometime or never?
You do know that the fact the bible doesn't mention a certain principle or idea isn't evidence against the idea or principle existing implicitly within its pages, right?
Hmm, rather provide some kind of "proof" to support the existence of a "mover", you've instead decided that the best cause of action would be me proving a negative. Gosh, I've never seen that before.
By the way, I only deal with alcoholic proofs: I'm not a mathematician.
That's nice. Now would be a good time to supply someway it can both be evidenced and falsified.
I don't believe that there was a sentient being that started "all". Where started is somewhat in the limited sense of the word.
There's no tangible evidence to suggest that any being construed to introduce Space and Time.
Um, the idea of any God, whether it be the Muslim conception, Allah, or it be that of any other religion, is unprovable. Your argument is so poor, that you've just managed, via your illogic, to falsify the validity of all religious scriptures. Well done.
Actually, they aren't even the same concept. Pain is the body's manifestation of a response to a certain kind of stimuli. It is therefore material and testable by different principles. One way to test it is to show the person's brain and, depending on the force of the slap, the person's skin reacting to the assault.
Another way is to reciprocate with a slap of ones own, so that the initial slapper can share in the misery, thus excusing any need to "prove" the pain caused by the slap. That is, unless the initial slapper is one of those freaks that don't feel pain. You just might have to turn the other cheek in that case.
not the same things either. There are scientific tests for those things, not so the trinity.
If I give you a blinding slap on ur face what will you feel?
Good answer! Can you then prove to me or someone else that you are feeling PAIN?
Can you show me the PAIN? Can you describe how the PAIN looks like?
How can you then prove to me that what you feel is PAIN?
My dear olabowale, you are asking us to prove the Trinity the same way I'm asking you to prove PAIN.
Can you see the AIR or WIND? You feel it dont you? Prove to me that what you feel is WIND!
oh! You can see it blow trees and ur shirts right?
My dear, that's how the Trinity works in us too!!!
You may not be able to see them, may not even be able to prove them, but it doesnt mean they dont exist and are not working in people's lives.
well,as for me-i'ld say dere's no one dt can answer dt ques perfectly cos He only,understands d reason 4 evryfin He does moreover,his ways n tots rnt like ours.He's just unquestionable.sum1 might say-but then, do u realise that saying God is unquestionable makes him devoid of a loving father?,a dictator whose ways shouldnt be questioned?is that how a father is supposed to be?,let alone of a heavenly father.wen u question God,is just like questioning ur faith in Him.aktuali,dis aint d onli story dt poses confusion among peeps bt den,we just av to bliv it has a reason and do wateva He commands-His commandments.4 it is written in da bible itself:
--->wu is like a wise man?and wu knws d interpretation of a thing?a man's wisdom makes his face shine,and the hardness of his countenance is changed.keep the king's command,and cos of ur sacred oath be nt dismayed,go from His presence,do nt delay when the matter is unpleasant,for He does wateva He pleases.4 d word of the king is supreme,and wu may say to Him,"wat r u doing?".
--->i have seen the business that God has given to the sons of men to be busy with.He has made everytin beautiful in its time,also he has put eternity into man's mind,yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end.
--->then i saw al d work of God,that man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun.howeva much man may toil in seeking,he will not find it out,even though a wise man claims to knw,he cannot find it out.
anyao sha,ma point is no mata ao we may try we cant find answers dt r gonna pin our ques right at da middle.al dis things r aktuali worth questioning bt we just avta take it dt way since faith is da assurance of things hoped 4 and conviction of things nt seen.by faith we undastand dt d world was created by d word of God,so that what is seen was made outta things which do not appear!
Whatever People believe, this is what I personally choose to believe:
I tried quetioning everyone around me about so many questions in the Bible, The tree of the Knowledge of good and evil, who did Cain marry , his sister, are we all decendants of Noa, etc. I received answers to some of them, but at the end of the day, I just came to this conclusion:
1. Faith shouldn't move in parallel to Facts, if we had facts to all we asked, then there will be nothing to have "Faith" in or "Believe" in. If I had answers to everything I asked, then there is no place of that element of things unseen, hope of things to come and things that have happend long time in the past.
2. Is there any fact that Yesua (Jesus) every existed, I will say no to that, but I am happy to belong to that collection of people who believe in what was written and put together by the scholars which we were told, were led by the spirit of God to put all the "spiritually-relevant" books together to form today's Bible.
3. Whatever anyone chooses to Believe, it's important that Facts aren't all we need to exist in this modern world , 21st Century. There are lots and loads of doctrines out there, but at the end of the day, it's down to your personal relationship with God, what did God reveal to you about these things?
God, being a perfect God, who knows the end of a thing before the beginning of it intentionally planted the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden of Eden to glorify Himself. He is to be glorified in the fall of man.
Note that the word "God" means object of worship. He never became object of worship until HE created angels and man to worship HIM though HE had the attribute in HIM.
So also, among other attributes, HE is a Saviour but never has man fallen or lost to be saved or redeemed. On the cross He Redeemed or Saved man back to Himself. Have you ever met a genuinely saved believer? He ever llive to glorify and appreciate God, irrespective of life's tumult.
This is the mistery of the fall and rise of man. All planned by God.
my take on this is very very simple!!! its just so amazing how we try to confuse ourselves by complicating things so much!!!! LOL
Okay, in order to have absolute freedom, you have to have the OPPORTUNITY and SPACE to do absolutely anything you want! wheather good or bad! so, in order for God to show that man has absolute freedom, the OPPORTUNITY and SPACE for sin HAD TO be there!!! how can you tell me i am free to do anythign and go anywhere and then have a boundary?!?!?!? then its NOT absolute freedom!!!!
there can ONLY be absolute freedom in the presence of absolute SIN!!!!!!!! the reason for the tree being in the garden was the only way for man to be absolutely free!!! God is so amazing in that if he says he is giving you something, he does so abolutely and wholeheartedly!!! to NOT have the tree in the garden would mean that man NEVER had the space to prove to himself and others that he is truly free!!!!! whatever God had going with adam had to be freely entered into by both parties! as in God could never force himself or his knowledge on adam. it had to be adam freely asking or entering in with God.
What was supposed to happen was that the tree was supposed to always be there but as man CHOSE to not touch it, this meant that the relationship between God and Man was totally free and entered into because they WANTED to and not because fear forced them to!!!!
this is the kind of relationship we ARE to have with God!!! not the silly and condemned view we have living in fear 24/7!!! people repenting every minute out of fear of not going to hell! LOL
Wake up people and smell the coffee!!!!!! GOD IS LOVE AND PEACE!!!! not the image of a twisted being who wwould purposely put temptaion in our way! NOT TRUEEEEEE!!!!!!!
The information gathered from a variety of sources who have accessed the realms beyond our three dimensional reality - what we would term the spirit world - from seers to clairvoyants, herbalists, out of body experiencers, near death experiencers, and so on is that in the spirit world, where the Source of life we refer to as God dwells, in this dimension, the concept of time and space as we know them on earth are inoperative.
The spirit world - OUR TRUE HOME - where we all go upon passing, is said to be a vast place filled with life, learning and leisure of proportions and beauty unimaginable to humans. It even has colors that are unknown on earth.
It is not 'up there' in 'heaven', but permeates even right through us here on earth and everywhere. We cannot see this realm because they vibrate at a faster rate than us on earth. But they can be accessed, and have been accessed by generations of seers, psychics, herbalists, and Near Death Experiencers.
This is where all the people, and even animals and insects, we consider 'dead' reside, mostly in conditions of unimaginable bliss and happiness.
The spirit world is also a place of the Eternal Now.
Present, past and future can be accessed from this dimension. Time as we know it is an illusion. Linear time is simply a means for us to exist effectively on the earth plane.
In reality there is only the Eternal Now.
Space is non-existent because in this realm, you think of a place and you're there - wherever. Even communication is done via telepathy, and is said to be vastly superior to speech as a form of communication, because you can also access the communicator's feelings during the exchange.
When you understand these basic facts of existence, you'll see that the idea that 'God did not know' what 'Adam and Eve' would do, even the idea of God 'testing' the couple, etc etc, is all biblical nonsense.
NO SUCH THING HAPPENED. There was no fruit in any garden with 'Adam and Eve' on it.
''Adam'' and ''Eve'' if they did exist (highly doubtful), were the first Jews, not the first human beings.
Human beings existed in Africa and elsewhere no less than 50,000 years before ''Adam'' and ''Eve'', were invented by Jewish scribes.
Yahweh, the ''God'' of the bible is NOT GOD.
The real God of the universe, the source of all that is, does not get jealous, does not get ''angry'' does not 'test' his creation, does not order his 'chosen people' to go on killing sprees and Molesting escapades as does the Old testament ''God''.
These are all physical human attributes that were ascribed to the Source of All Life by Jewish scribes in their bid to control and dominate their people, and wage war against their neighbours.
God does not demand ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice as does the Jewish tribal god Yahweh, and He does not 'punish' people for their sins.
Such ideas are based on ancient pagan beliefs that predate Christianity and are not founded on truth.
What happens when you pass away is that you return to the spirit world, and your actions on earth are reviewed by yourself with the assistance of your spirit guide or chi, as the Igbos call them, and highly evolved entities on behalf of the Creator, who operate in a non-judgemental capacity characterised by love and understanding.
You as a spirit, operating with an expanded consciousness characterised by greater awareness, will upon being shown less than complimentary aspects of your past life, may decide by advice or of your own accord, to RETURN in another human body, to resolve karmic issues related to your last life.
You will be made to forget your full personality as a soul, as 'knowing the deal' will prevent you from accomplishing your set goals, which always are to do with spiritual development as a soul. It is said that every soul has a deep desire to attain spiritual development, and Earth and other planets are regarded as schools or boot-camps for soul development, as adverse conditions exist there that could not be found in the spirit world. By suffering, learning lessons, teaching lessons as humans, souls experience spiritual evolution.
The 'time' we spend on earth as humans is in reality - an illusion.
A seventy year life on earth is little more than the equivalent of 'an hour' in the spirit world, and it is said that in spiritual classroom sessions, students go for an earth life and return to the ongoing lesson when the life on earth is completed, just as if they'd visited the bathroom.
Reincarnation is a fact of life known to humans for over 100,000 years.
Until you start regarding everything you read in the bible and koran with a pinch of salt, down to the ridiculous, pilfered Jesus fairytale, you'll never arrive at the truth on this earth.
For more on the accounts of near-death experiencers, whom incidentally cut across ALL cultures, races and religions while sharing remarkably similar experiences of the hereafter, visit:
me i,m confused about this so called tree,while some pple said it was the real tree as in TREES,some pple said that it was what was in BETWEEN EVE,S LEGS they were refering to as the tree in the garden of eden,the whole thing don tire me jare.WHERE IN THE WORLD IS THE GARDEN OF EDEN?before we talk about the tree.
Location of the garden of Eden?
10. Now a river went out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it parted and became four riverheads.
11. The name of the first is Pishon; it is the one which skirts the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold.
12. And the gold of that land is good. Bdellium and the onyx stone are there.
13. The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one which goes around the whole land of Cush.
14. The name of the third river is Hiddekel, it is the one which goes toward the east of Assyria. The fourth river is the Euphrates.
In some Bible versions, the river Hiddekel is referred to as river Tigris.
So try finding these rivers & get ur question answered.
OR better still, gba kámú.
If you are a good student of the Bible, you will know that there were two trees at the center of the Garden. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil(NOTE KNOWLEDGE) and the tree of life. Adam and Eve choose the the knowledge of good and evil and so judgment of right and wrong began. Nobody ever asked what about the tree of life at the center. do you know why nobody is concerned, because the knowledge of good and evil does not make Life that God offers to appeal to us again.
Why did God plant it there? Look at it this way, if Adam had guarded the garden and controlled assess to the garden, what do you think will be the value of this two trees. It will be the most precious things, of more value than Gold, Diamond or Petrol because who ever owns practically will control the other creatures who desire life or knowledge. We were created the richest of Gods creation but how did we handle it, we flopped and denied ourselves the privilege of supremacy. That is why God planted the tree at the center, so we can easily guard what will make us rulers on earth juts exactly the way God wanted-"so that they may have dominion over all creations, "
first off, freewill is not a possibility - it is a fact. My previous rejoinder is enough to attest to that fact.
And Yes, i believe in that statement.
And No, i don't believe i have contradicted myself in any sense.
I already know what you are gonna say, but then i'd give room to follow up on your write-up.
God's plan for one's life can be altered. I would have loved to give you instances but you may not want to agree based on the fact that I will be using the Quran to support my claim.
Before you do or say anything, God is already aware. Nothing happens without God's knowledge. No evil befalls any man without His knowledge. If God does not want to punish someone, nobody can do that and if he decides to, nobody can hold him back.
Its only man and Jinn that are given freedom to do whatever they feel like. Man should also understand that he is free to choose between good and evil and will be rewarded for anyone he does, but he should also know that he cannot control the outcome of events which is known only to Allah alone.
God knows that prayer changes things and as a result tells us to always pray, because is the sword of the believer and through prayer, what you thought that is impossible will become possible.
I have thus spoken from my own Islamic perspection.
Thank you all.
Yes. God's plan for one's life can be altered.
Remember the flood in Noah's days, God was please when he created man(Genesis) but displeased when man disobeyed him. So man was sposed to be cool but the eden incident introduced him to sin & so he annoyed God enuff to flood his kind wit d xception of Noah & co.
Interesting. Very reasonable, and to be honest, I also share the same opinion. Also, note that I am not totally ruling out the possibility of humans having a freewill.
Now let me ask you this question - Do you believe in the statement below?
"If God wants something to happen, it will. If he doesn't want it to happen, it will not."
If yes, then you'll be contradicting yourself.
Look goodguy, i'd make this as simple and direct as possible.
The issue of Omniscience and freewill may sound contradictory but like i once said, they correlate yet run in parallel. Now the HOW is the mystery. . .
A good example i once gave of Omniscience and freewill running hand in hand is Biblical prophecies and the Choices we make.
Your stance in this thread/issue is driven by opinion and your opinion(s) is/are driven by the choice to think from one perspective. By this, freewill exist- because you exercise your freewill to think differently from another individual.
Biblical prophecies point to the Omniscience of God. Only an all-knowing God can see into the future. Prophecies concerning nations, the state of mind of the world as per God, growing cynicism for religion had been prophesied millenias ago.
Both factors operate but in a parallel manner.
We were created in the image of God i.e. to have free will to know good and evil and to choose good or evil because we want to. But how will this be if He (God) controls us to do right and to love him? That means we would have no choice but to obey God. So, he put us in a position where we would be able to choose to obey or not to obey, to know what is good or bad and to choose what path we want to follow. We all know that if you force someone to love you, they don't really do.
So, God wanted us all to choose for ourselves if we would love and serve him or not by our own free will.
About that 'predestined' thing,u know destiny can be altered so even if God has predestined someone to be great,some familiar forces can alter his/her destiny if he/she is not protected enough.
So also Adam & Eve were destined to be sinless but the serpent altered it thru temptation.
So free will still plays its role even amidst God's governance.
Nice submission here. I've also thought the same thing, and also considering the thread someone created recently:
"Is The Biblical Cain The Son Of Lucifer Or The Son Of Adam?"
. . . I was thinking that perhaps, there could be a connection. But then again, if we read the scriptures carefully, we'll see that the tree talked about was a real tree - yes, like the one at the back of my house.
Genesis 2:9 - And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
interesting discourse, nut i'd like to make a quick comment on the Judas Issue
Jesus stated that someone would betray him out of the 12, but Judas made a choice to be that one, it could've been any of the other disciples
I agree the twin issues of predestination and free-will are difficult to reconcile, it remains a very tough subject to resolve
Most narrations in the bible are actually metaphorical. I am still finding it hard to believe that God something as simple as a "fruit" is responsible for the human race's predicament. God always ilustrate things using parables and metaphors. It will be wise to think he is using the concept of a "fruit" to illustrate